Pratham Chhabria | 1:27pm BST 26 May 2025
Part 5
Pratham: The next series I wanted to discuss was maybe not overall as a series as special as
the one against Australia…
Lance Gibbs: The ones with Australia-West Indies are a fight!
Pratham: Right.
Pratham: The next series you faced up in was back at home.
Pratham: And while it wasn’t a contest of that caliber, it did feature your best performance in
Test match cricket.
Pratham: The series I’m referring to was the 61/62 series at home versus India.
Pratham: You bowled well throughout – but there was one performance I would like to talk a little
bit more about.
Pratham: It’s in the plaque (referring to the tablet gifted to Lance Gibbs upon retirement showing
his bowling figures per series that he graciously showed Pratham when they met for the
interview) you shared with me – your best figures.
Pratham: The 3rd Test. 2nd innings of a game…
Lance Gibbs: We won this!
Pratham: Yes.
Pratham: And your figures read 53.3 overs, 37 maidens, 38 runs, and 8 wickets in that innings
of that match.
Pratham: But one of the things I looked into and found out was that those 8 wickets…they fell in
the span of 6 runs.
Lance Gibbs: I remember the one with Sardesai.
Pratham: How did you get him out?
Lance Gibbs: Sardesai? He was the second wicket to fall.
Lance Gibbs: He was caught somewhere down leg side bat pad.
Lance Gibbs: (Looking at the list compiled by Pratham of wickets taken during that innings) Oh
so you got that down with you?
Pratham: I do, I do!
Pratham: So you had Sardesai out, Manjrekar out, Umrigar out…
Lance Gibbs: Umrigar, yeah yeah.
Pratham: Pataudi, Borde, Engineer, Durani, Desai. Do any of these gentlemen and their
dismissals ring a bell for you?
Lance Gibbs: Manjrekar, yeah.
Pratham: They (Manjrekar and Sardesai) had put on a partnership and that’s when you came
in…
Lance Gibbs: Yeah. Because once that partnership was broken I was able to get those 8
wickets.
Lance Gibbs: Borde was caught by Frank Worrell at midwicket.
Pratham: What was he trying to do? Attempt a flick?
Lance Gibbs: He was trying to do something that he didn’t want to – pull. He should have not
gone for it. Worrell caught him.
Pratham: I know Engineer was one of the victims as well and then Salim Durani goes. And then
the number 11 Ramakanth Desai, who was a fast bowler, was out.
Pratham: And what I noticed was that none of the wickets were actually LBW or bowled that
particular day. Which is a bit strange, you know, cause usually when a spinner takes a 5 wicket
haul, you’d expect to see some kind of dismissal like that.
Lance Gibbs: Yeah, yeah. I remember that Test match.
Pratham: Was there a reason why – like in terms of the way you were bowling? Were you
looking to beat the outside edge? Or were you looking more to target the stumps? Because
usually, if you’re targeting the stumps, you get one LBW or bowled dismissal at the very least,
right? Was your line a bit wider?
Lance Gibbs: I applied variations for whoever was batting. You know, you could tell where to
pitch it and where not to pitch it.
Pratham: Now in terms of that game, I know it was a six day Test and India were looking to
basically get the draw.
Pratham: It was in Barbados – Kensington Oval.
Pratham: Do you recall the nature of the pitch for that particular game? With all the dismissals
being caught one of the things I wondered was it the surface itself – did it make it so that bowling
trying to get somebody out LBW wasn’t as much of an option? Was there some extra bounce on
the wicket?
Lance Gibbs: I don’t remember much about it in that respect.
Pratham: Now, Dillip Sardesai and Vijay Manjrekar, as we mentioned, were the batsman on the
crease when that spell started.
Pratham: Those two were the main established batsmen for India at that point…
Lance Gibbs: Umrigar too.
Pratham: Sorry, yes. Him too.
Pratham: So what did you make of Sardesai, Umrigar, and Manjrekar? When you were bowling
to them, what did you notice in terms of how they were batting against you? Was one of them
more keen to drive you – was one more keen to pull you or cut you?
Lance Gibbs: I remember them playing the game to lengthen out. It’s not a question of them
trying to – you know dominate. They never really tried.
Pratham: So they were dead batting a lot of things in the game?
Lance Gibbs: Mmhhmm.
Lance Gibbs: The first two wickets would have been…what’s the name of that opening
batsman?
Pratham: For India, the first two openers would have been Jaisimha and Sardesai.
Lance Gibbs: Jaisimha, yes.
Pratham: Rusi Surti came in at 3 and the rest.
Lance Gibbs: So I got the two that batted the longest and then the rest.
Pratham: Yep!
Pratham: Jaisima scored a little bit more than those two in the 1st innings but in terms of
minutes those two (referring to Sardesai and Manjrekar) spent the most amount of time in the
2nd innings.
Pratham: 2nd innings he had gotten a duck to a fellow by the name of Charlie Stayers.
Lance Gibbs: Stayers got 2 wickets?
Pratham: Yep.
Lance Gibbs: Charlie Stayers from Guyana.
Pratham: And my next question is actually about Charlie Stayers from Guyana cause he made
his debut in international cricket during that particular series…
Lance Gibbs: They said he used to throw a bit.
Pratham: He used to what?
Lance Gibbs: He used to throw a bit.
Pratham: You think his action was a little bit suspect?
Lance Gibbs: He was called…on other occasions.
Pratham: Was he fairly quick?
Lance Gibbs: Mmhhmm. Yeah, he was a good friend of mine. He went out of Test cricket after
that, the throwing thing.
Pratham: So was this, uh…I mean because obviously the controversy that would go on later
would be of Charlie Griffith being accused of throwing as well.
Lance Gibbs: Both Charlie Stayers and Charlie Griffith were accused.
Pratham: Did you suspect Charlie Griffith was actually throwing? What was your opinion about
that?
Lance Gibbs: I don’t know for sure about Charlie Stayers. He played in Test matches that I
played in. But Charlie Griffith…was a rough guy, boy. He’s a strong man.
Pratham: Did you feel his action…
Lance Gibbs: No, I never really concentrated on that area. But he’s not a likeable fellow. He’s
not likeable. He’s a rough man.
Pratham: I see.
Pratham: Well, another series that comes in after this that was very exciting…coming on the
way here, I saw a picture from it actually on the wall…was the 1963 tour to England.
Pratham: It’s considered one of the most exciting series played in England.
Pratham: And you started it off in a very good fashion! You took a 10 wicket haul, 11 wickets to
be precise at Old Trafford.
Pratham: Did you feel that you were at the peak of your career at that point?
Lance Gibbs: Not really. I’ll bowl anytime, man (both chuckle).
Pratham: From what I’m aware of the game, it certainly ended up by the end being a pretty nice
surface for you to bowl on.
Pratham: Cause it was flat for the first couple of days and then after that it started taking some
turn. Think it was Hunte…
Lance Gibbs: Conrad?
Pratham: Yes, Conrad Hunte who scored a big century first time around (Note: Conrad Hunte
made 182 from 485 balls in a total of 501-6 declared).
Pratham: And so by the time you came to bowl, well, especially in the second English innings –
the first innings less so…
Lance Gibbs: Started to turn a bit…somebody gotta turn it. Hahahaha!
Pratham: So I have some footage actually of that ‘63 series featuring you. Let me pull that up
(shows clips of Gibbs and others bowling at Old Trafford, Lords, Edgbaston, and Headingley).
Pratham: One of the things I noticed – going back in the matches and looking at those wickets –
the close in fielders are taking a lot of catches for you.
Lance Gibbs: If you get it to bounce a bit, the close in fielders will take catches for you.
Pratham: That’s what I was actually going to ask about. Because you know, Conrad Hunte,
Garry Sobers, etc who were often in the short leg type of position seem to be in that ‘63 series
taking in a lot of catches close off your bowling.
Pratham: Did you feel that the pitches were such that you were able to get a bit of extra bounce
and that was helping you out?
Lance Gibbs: For me, the wickets there were the same in this way. If you got spin, you got
bounce.
Pratham: Well, it’s interesting you say that.
Pratham: Because going back and reading the reports written at the time suggest apart from the
Third Test at points where it was covered and a bit lifeless, most of the surfaces were prepared
a bit firm.
Pratham: They were fairly true, sometimes fairly fast…
Lance Gibbs: I as a spinner – I needed bounce. And if I get a wicket that’s got a bit of turn and
bounce, I can get what I want.
Pratham: Did you feel that you got that bounce consistently throughout that tour?
Lance Gibbs: Throughout that tour of England, yeah.
Lance Gibbs: You see in England then, the groundsmen had gotten a way of leaving a bit of
grass in it. And once you grow grass in a wicket like that, you’ll get bounce.
Pratham: Fair enough.
Pratham: That series also featured another very close Test, the second Test there at Lords.
Brian Close taking the hits of the body from Hall and Griffith.
Pratham: You were on the field that day. That last over, they’ve just managed to stave it off for
the draw. What were your emotions at the time? Going through it, seeing all of, you know, this
transpire?
Lance Gibbs: It was an extremely interesting Test match.
Lance Gibbs: Listen, I could sit down and talk to the groundsman at Bourda but I can’t talk to the
groundsman at Lords. But yet, you find the wicket as if Gibbs had spoken to him for the side.
Pratham: Interesting.
Pratham: Now, there were two other off spinners that were playing for England in that series.
Pratham: One Fred Titmus, and the other one David Allen. Both of them actually in that series
struggled a little bit. Stats wise, they didn’t do particularly well against the West Indies batsmen
for that series
(Note: Fred Titmus in the 4 Tests he played in that series had figures of
101-23-256-6 at a bowling average of 42.67. David Allen in the 2 Tests he played in that series
had figures of 88.1-32-208-4 at an average of 52).
Pratham: They were reputable spinners, they had long careers, they did perform in different
parts of the world.
Lance Gibbs: David Allen, yes.
Pratham: How did you think they actually bowled? Do you think they bowled particularly badly…
Lance Gibbs: No – they bowled reasonably well. Our batters took chances.
Pratham: I see. So you felt their chances came off.
Lance Gibbs: Mmhhmm.
Lance Gibbs: They were bowling at our batsmen, you know. Our batsmen – if you go up there
(gesturing with his hand a fuller flighted length), they would go at you.
Pratham: I see. So if they tried to flight the ball, they would.
Pratham: That brings up an interesting point. Allan vs Titmus. Did you feel that Titmus in
particular gave a little bit too much air consistently throughout – was he trying to flight it too
much?
Lance Gibbs: Not after a while. If you got it in your mind that this man is going to get me, he will.
Lance Gibbs: They both didn’t try different things. They should have tried a bit more.
Pratham: I see – so they were a little bit too predictable.
Lance Gibbs: They played within their limitations, okay. They were afraid to take certain
chances. And when they did decide to take certain chances, we hit the ball in the air.
Pratham: Fair enough.
Pratham: Well you ended up being part of a side that beat England 3-1 in that tour. When you
did that in ‘63, did your teammates feel you were part of the best side in the world?
Pratham: After that ‘63 win specifically, did you feel that there was any side in the world that was
better than yours in world cricket at that moment?
Lance Gibbs: No.
To be continued ……….
